Heres how Allah describes their punishment. It was these nine families that cause much of the problems for Salih. Nigel Groom said that Sargon II recorded his subjugations of the tribe of Tamud in 715 BCE, that Agatharchides refers to the land of the Thamoudenian Arabs, Diodorus Sicilus refers to the Thamudeni, Pliny speaks of the Tamudaei, Ptolemy mentioned the Thamudiatea and also the Thamydeni and a Nabatean inscription dated to 166-169 CE refers to the nation or federation of the Thamudeans.[3][4]. [22], The first wave of Arab immigration to the Maghreb began with the conquest of the Maghreb in the seventh century, with the migration of sedentary and nomadic Arabs to the Maghreb from the Arabian Peninsula. Moreover, they cultivated fertile land and gained lots of benefit from it. And Ad and Thamud as has been made clear from their dwellings. It is not specific to the 2 Arab tribes. But the fact that they spitefully killed an animal that had done them no harm and for no good reason is proof and a sign of their evil. from there I will bring you down, I dont know and this is a good aspect of the Quran; it does not go into such things and instead instructs us to focus on the message and not the nitty gritty. If we try to discuss the lineage of the Arabs well be here forever. In other words either the evidence no longer exists (no problem) or Thamudic dwellings in North West Arabia are yet to be discovered. [17], Thamud is mentioned twenty-three times in the Quran as part of a moralistic lesson about God's destruction of sinful nations, a central motif in the Quran. One may argue that they existed until 106 CE, i.e. Most of the monuments and inscriptions of the archaeological site of Al-Hijr date from the 1st century BCE and the 1st century CE. And [We destroyed] 'Aad and Thamud and the companions of the well and many generations between them. Abdullah ibn Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, reported: . Amorites Point by Ismail about the order of the messengers from earliest to latest also is something to ponder over and maybe the people of the Hijr are different from the Thamud. (LogOut/ We have no firm textual evidence as to where they went, but their pattern of rock carving survived for millennia among their successors in the area such as the Nabateans, the Dedanites, the Lihyanites who supplanted the Dedanites in Dedan in the last century BCE and 1st century CE and others. And perhaps, just like the Aad before them, they forgot the faith of Tawheed practiced by their ancestors and slipped into worhsiping idols. As for objection number one, as far as my research has shown, the only reason that the carved-out structures are considered tombs is due to various rectangular carved out niches inside them where the dead bodies were to be placed. The shout, which is an extremely loud sound, might have caused the earthquake, according to certain scholars. Again the burden of proof is on us that this was the case. Finally, we should understand that Allah has no problem replacing one people with another. According to Dr. Nehme, a senior research scientist at the French National Center for Scientific Research, the Nabateans have left us with almost no written material that would shed any light on their origins or even daily affairs. [10], Arab Islamic sources state that the Thamud were an early Arab tribe that had gone extinct in ancient days. Are women deficient in intelligence in Islam? This is because Prophet Ismail (AS) is often considered to be the father of Arabs just like Prophet Ishaaq/Isaac (AS) is considered to be the father of the Israelites. According to the Greek historian, Diodorus Siculus, the Nabateans have a law neither to sow corn nor to plant any fruit-bearing plant, nor to use wine, nor to build a house. Asalam Alie Kum The blast struck the evildoers and they lay dead in their homes, as though they had never lived and flourished there. In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful. In addition, when the verses talk about Verily there is a sign in this, it doesnt necessarily mean that we have to see the sign i.e. [9] The Thamd also joined the Roman armies as auxiliaries, and the Notitia Dignitatum mentions two units of Thamd warriors serving the Roman Empire, one in Egypt and the other in Palestine.[10]. you will be utterly despised. That they were better than you in building these fallen down relics 2. http://saudi-archaeology.com/sites/madain-saleh/. If accurate, the Prophet Salih (s) would have lived many generations and perhaps centuries before Moses. Good reply Adeel. What the hidden 85 percent will reveal remains to be seen. But we can conclude from the verses of the Quran that they lived sometime after the flood of Noah and before the time of Ibrahim (AS). In the worst cases, they may even go so far as to challenge Allah. Also two Saheeh reports are contradicting each other: One the one hand, they are resting at al Hijr, while on the other hand it is said that they didnt rest at all and kept riding away faster from Hijr. Here is the summary of his opinion: ( ) which only proves that al-Hijr was also the land of the Thamud which is not a problem. Anyway, whats really important is what led to their punishment. The Quran states regarding them: , And to the Thamud [We sent] their brother Salih. The Quran mentions the Thamud as an example of an ancient polytheistic people who were destroyed by God for their sins. A temple they constructed at Rawwafa, 200 miles north of Medina, mentions the following in a Greek-Nabataean bilingual inscription: For the wellbeing of the rulers of the whole world . So, basically during the time of the Prophet (), their remains were not on the surface and only some of them were visible. 2. But as a sign of their wickedness, they killed her. These people incurred the wrath of God and were destroyed. They were successors to the People of Noah. The Thamud did not worship God, and were disobedient. So, in summary, The Quran makes a claim that in a particular time in history, a people known as Thamud built structures on the hills and mountains. 3 The pride of your heart has deceived you, 3. We simply do not know the true date and timeline for when the first Thamud of the Quran existed and, therefore, it would be difficult, if not impossible, to accurately identify the ruins of such an ancient civilization that lived thousands years ago. Doesnt matter if they were destroyed before or after Ibn Kathir and the land is not in Yemen. Heavy contact with Romans resulted in us having a pretty decent record of its territories and people. Also you said 89:9 means a valley is not Madain al saleh a vally or is it not In fact they were pretty snarky in their responses. They are mentioned in the Quran as examples of civilizations that Allah had destroyed because of their sins and as signs of the fleeting nature of the worldly power. So leave her to eat within Allahs land and do not touch her with harm, lest there seize you a painful punishment. When some one has a keen desire to understand logically or has questions, there is nothing wrong I think. According to Arab traditions, tribes are divided into different divisions called Arab skulls ( ), which is a term given to a group of tribes of the Arabian Peninsula, which are described in the traditional custom of strength, abundance, victory, and honor. The Nabataean alphabet was adopted by Arabs to the south, and evolved into modern Arabic script around the 4th century. Between the mountains were valleys with gardens and springs of water. Assalam alikum forget the rest of what Ive put down but I was just wondering does 36:41 prove that every one on the earth comes from the people of tge ark if yes then how does that work because people could still see thamud dwellings so that means they could only come thousands of years of go but we know noah had to come near them but we know humans have been here at least 40 thousand bc so how do we explain this, Assalam alikum thanks for the answers but thamud had to be destroyed no lesser than 3000 bc not 800 bc jazzakallah because thamud came before Abraham jazzakallah but thanks, Also if the quran says the area is wadi al qura then madian al saleh is not wadi al qura jazzakallah but thanks, But of course in there empire day they would of probably built in wadi al qura and al ula and madian al saleh and else where in there area because they would of had a large population any where between 20 thousand to 50 thousand people because mekkah and median together came to 20-40 thousand people in the prophets day and 40:21 says these people were more in population so they had to be more than mekkah and median, Assalam alikum also dies 7:74 mean that Thamud were the descendents of ad or not or were they they descendents of ad jazzakallah. Like does 89:9 mean what thamud used too do like example pharoh killed people on stakes or does it mean what they have done like example the pyramids. It would be unsurprising then, to find them in the archaeological/literary records related to ancient Arabia. They write new content and verify and edit content received from contributors. So, basically during the time of the Prophet (), their remains were not on the surface and only some of them were visible. Suhih Bukhari_ Book of _ Virues of Al-Quran : THE FIRST PILLAR OF ISLAM: THE MUSLIM PROFESSION O _ ( Istighfar & Tawbah Authentic Dua & Dhikr: What Is the Status of Women in Islam? Omissions? And God knows best. Qur'an and Hadith on Thamud and their Dwellings Abu Rahma / March 22, 2016 It is argued that the Qur'an and the Prophet () made an error in history and facts [1]. Now we dont see the remains of Nuhs AS people now do we? Trudy Ring, Noelle Watson, Paul Schellinger. There is no special connection between these scripts and the tribe of Thamud. They may have even intermingled to the point of losing any distinction along ethnic lines as there is no good reason or evidence to preclude the idea that the Thamud also ventured and lived in Petra and the surrounding areas. This has led traditional Muslim historians to place the two quite early in history, much before the time of even Abraham and Moses. Allah doesnt need you. And We gave them Our signs, but from them they were turning away. 62-63]. Here is how their argument goes: The Quran describes prophet called Salih ( ), who lived in the Thamud tribe. Ad and Thamud were two great civilizations destroyed by God due to their excessive wickedness. The arguments against the Quran and Hadith are as follows: Al-Hijr Archaeological Site (Madin Slih) UNESCO World Heritage Centre. One of the main lessons I see is that we must be very careful about mocking or challenging Allah. However this would not explain why the Prophet () referred to the houses as Thamuds dwellings. 2. The Quran tells us that the people of Ad started to build altars on the high places, and even strongholds in the mountains. You may look at any tafsir, these Ayaat are general and simply refer to destroyed civilisations which may be Indus Valley (Mohenjodaro, Harappa), Sodom, and Pompeii among many others. Question:What is the correct explanation for the P --* _ . Based on some of the artifacts and writing, there are several civilizations at play here and they consider that the stone carvings were the work of Nabataens), Assalam alikum but mu point is it make it sound like these 2 verses mean that thamud and AD buildings were still standing tall my point is on the arabic word atharan because does this mean that this verses are saying midian al saleh are thamud because that would be wrong, Does atharan mean we have to see it or does it just mean they made marks witch we dont have to see, Walikum asalam It doesnt speak about being touched or untouched. In my research, I did discover that the tombs do contain pre-Nabatean inscriptions. Then, it was not Allah Who caused them any wrong; they . God chose the prophet Salih to warn the polytheistic Thamud that they should worship the One God. But they almost always have some other deities included in their pantheon. 2 See, I will make you small among the nations; The Ghassanids increased the Semitic presence in the then Hellenized Syria, the majority of Semites were Aramaic peoples. The first ancient tribe of Thamud should be distinguished from later tribes named Thamud by historians and archaeologists, as well as the region itself, which was known as the land of Thamud and sometimes simply Thamud.. Its also implausible that a people who would be at the helm of such epic architectural and engineering achievements would not even make mention of it, or at least keep a record of it. (2). They also fell to idol-worshipping. 1995. International Dictionary of Historic Places. Im trying to understand the arabic like why do some arabic words have al before some words when we dont use them like in verse 2:36 (But Satan caused both of them to deflect from obeying Our command by tempting them to the tree and brought them out of the state they were in, and We said: Get down all of you; henceforth, each of you is an enemy of the other,50 and on earth you shall have your abode and your livelihood for an appointed time.) in this verse in arabic it says al Shatan why doesnt just say satan instead of if translated the satan because that would sound weird Their dwellings remained but very partially Also, 28:40 is referring to Pharaoh and the verse tells us to BEHOLD how Allah SWT dealt with him without us being present to see it. Based on the Quranic and Biblical evidence, and the lack of archeological evidence which can conclusively show that every single structure that is excavated, and those that will be excavated in the future, are all Nabatean in origin, I believe carving out structures on hills and mountains originated with the Thamud, which was later adopted by the Edomites, which later still, was adopted by the Nabateans. Seeking blessings from relics of the righteous? Will you forbid us to worship what our fathers worshiped? 3 Southern Europe. I believe neither are in error. The tribe refused to heed him, saying that Salih was merely a mortal, and demanded a sign from God. The tribes of 'Ad and Thamud were ancient people who existed on the Arabian Peninsula many centuries ago and were recipients of the Prophets Hud and Salih, respectively. p.190. As for their dates, I do not know and it is not necessary that they would have to be very close to each other. 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